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Maskell might be one in the same. Why would Pete say that he drove from somewhere totally different (believe it was Beltsville?) I don't think that there's any evidence that Cathy could or would have done anything that would have been sufficient to check Maskell - I doubt the media would have run a story on it without access to the victims, and that obviously wasn't going to happen. [–]shinstriderx 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (1 child), Have a question or a confused moment that was not elaborated on. If we assume Koob had nothing to do with Cathy's murder (which is my belief), then the perpetrator(s) must have returned the car during a time period that the three searchers could have narrowed down. Thank you, and absolutely. For example, his allegation that May ran interference for the Church could just be repeating the complaints of superiors, yet gives us the impression of a conspiracy between May and the Church. I thought the detective's reaction to the questioning about the letter Cathy's sister received after her death was pretty odd. [–]rojakrojak 15 points16 points17 points 3 years ago (0 children). Has anyone suggested to the police that they should contact a well established law enforcement partner that is a psychic or high profile forensic scientist / specialist? That was very wise, I think, since recovered memories are generally viewed with considerable skepticism by mental health practitioners (after the initial furor about recovered memories in the 90s, numerous cases were found to not have happened). [–]haveyouseenmygnocchi 27 points28 points29 points 3 years ago (2 children). [–]saturdayswim 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (3 children). [–]BamBamPow2 24 points25 points26 points 3 years ago (2 children). Too much of what she says is just supposed to be taken as fact. Personal attacks or comments that insult, demean or threaten users will be removed and will result in a ban. The Keepers Reddit AMA The Director of The Keepers Did a Reddit AMA — and the Catholic Church Replied. I do know he was only there for a very few years. What about Father Magnus? Koob also wasn't employed at Keough. (self.The_Keepers), Sister Cathy’s apartment, night of (self.The_Keepers), The letter Cathy gave to Koob (self.The_Keepers), Just watched the keepers for a second time and *really watched it* this time- I'm struggling with the implied sexual activity of Sister Cathy...why was that important to this series? The intricacies (the vulva, the clitoris, the labia) are details that are often all referred to as "the vagina.". I did hear that in that one instance there was some reference to avoiding pregnancy. They set koob up as this huge suspect and its ALL basically based on that one line in that old clipping. Plus, this violated the unspoken relationship with the viewer, where you present, to the best of your ability, valid material for their consideration. However, I simply don't see why they would bother. I mean, guess what, I was abused and I've been raped. I am sure there was some drama they didn't mention, but the whole 'okay let's research and check facts' approach by so many is amazing. [–]NickPitarra 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (1 child). I don't think it's a copycat since the MO seems different. Open you IBKR account today! For me, Jane Roe & Charles' testimony was even more convincing than Doe's. He gave a false alibi and they broke it, for God's sake! Then low and behold I found this article right after reading the above court documents:https://insidebaltimore.org/2015/06/02/new-evidence-links-merzbacher-child-rape-case-to-rampant-1970s-sex-abuse-at-keough-high-school-according-to-former-police-investigators-in-maryland/, [–]JacenWW5 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (17 children). Already being called a darker, more harrowing documentary than Making a Murderer, Netflix's The Keepers features some truly disturbing villains. Almost like an animal. That was my first thought. Maskell seemed like a textbook narcisisst/psychopath. [–]addpulp 22 points23 points24 points 3 years ago (1 child). I believe Sister Catherine told Russell and Koob about the abuse, and that all three Russel, Koob and Peter were aware that Cathy had been threatened by Maskell, and never spoke up about it out of fear for their own lives. And so many people involved have died at this point. Overall it was a good documentary series. One thing that really stood out to me was during Billy's nephew's recording, he claimed that Billy went into Cathy's apartment. Edgar and/or the Schmidts killed Cathy in a crime of opportunity or for some unknown, unrelated reason and it was sheer coincidence that it was around the same time Cathy had become aware of widespread abuse at Keough. I think it will be almost impossible to ever truly establish the truth. In the end, I'm still not convinced it wasn't a crime of opportunity committed by somebody completely unrelated to Cathy. Someone who was worried, someone that wouldn't have the protection Maskell probably knew he could rely on. Was also interesting to see how different he treated the "golden boy" and how he treated the girls at keough. If they decide to make a season 2 I hope they focus on the new DNA evidence, suspects and less on the anecdotal. They both desire celibacy due to the professions they've chosen but at the same time they struggle with equally genuine desires of intimacy. [–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (0 children), i don't doubt that may was paid off in the least. They would be very unlikely to talk about the abuse because it would require outing themselves as well. also maskell took them to doctors (gynecologist and psychiatrist? Lancaster and Wehner have said that she is the only one who helped them and other girls abused by Maskell and others, and they have said that she was murdered prior to discussing the matter with the Archdiocese of Baltimore.[4]. I am half way through episode 3 now and I'm really struggling with how this is going. In those cases, the corroboration of numerous victims helped a lot. He died some time before Maskell, in 1988. [–]RainyReese 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (3 children). Remember Sharon May's interview in The Keepers? I don't know what to believe and I just have this generally untrusting feeling when he talks, almost as if he knows more. If we take everything Jean says to be accurate (I don't doubt she was abused or think she was in any way lying but memories can unfortunately become muddled sometimes) then there has to be significance to the fact that she can't visualise his face, presumably because her sub-conscious is protecting her from one final detail. Lets look into him more as well. [–]beezofaneditor 12 points13 points14 points 3 years ago (0 children). If it's the truth it would probably have been extremely traumatic (real thing or not) and I understand why he would look back and call it unforgivable and speak of it the way he did. He said he was semi-retired and didn't like fishing so he took to armchair sleuthing as a hobby. At what point do we say "here is tangible evidence"? [–]Dante-Hart 30 points31 points32 points 3 years ago (0 children). Would Jane Doe recognize Brother Bob? Cathy's reference to her period coming late & how she wanted him inside her are giveaways. My final guess. MetaMedia/InternetUpdateCrime 1) I guess they actually had Cathy's vulva taken off, and one of the men threw it on the table to intimidate Koob? It also supports the story from an unknown student that said that Russel was there at Cathy and Russel’s apartment the night before the murder when she went to talk to her about the abuse. I completely agree with you- I think his reaction was entirely like "jesus fuck christ we lost evidence?!". (ibkr.com), Will the full soundtrack ever be released? Also, as crazy as the vagina comment was (and it was craaaaazy), the cop's reply is almost as weird. The girl who only took records was writing down weird shit but couldnt remember hours at a time. Amazing documentary, but if I hadn't binged it I'd have a hard time tracking everything. Second victim did know Maskell. He said he hadn't wanted to but felt he needed to. (self.The_Keepers), submitted 7 months ago by SingALittleSingAlong, Absolutely Livid after Ep. [–]Izzrail 17 points18 points19 points 3 years ago (2 children). Could be some of Cathy's hair on it if so; that would practically solve the case or eliminate billy from being a suspect. Mr. Storey was the cemetery caretaker. It seemed like they shared a secret. There must be a way to collect a list of people who had a blue station wagon in Baltimore. If he was searching the area, wouldnt the car be the first thing he saw, since it was parked halfway in the street ad halfway in the driveway? That would have been a bit of a swipe left for me, especially if I were a member of the clergy, but he clearly had a way with the ladies. [–]notime2xplain 39 points40 points41 points 3 years ago (0 children). What about the Schmidts? Eyewitnesses other than the woman interviewed? Do you think maybe the detectives gave him a part of something (dead animal parts?) [–]kinseyblaine 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (0 children). I deleted it once I saw this one. I was reaaalllyyyy uncomfortable when they were interviewing Edgar. Sociopaths have no problem with them. ", [–]DanielGardner 14 points15 points16 points 3 years ago (0 children). Jane Doe's history of abuse has clearly taken its toll on her mind and this is why I don't find her to be totally credible. Spoken word testimony is evidence. [–]itsgonnamove 21 points22 points23 points 3 years ago (0 children). I don't doubt him a bit that he is telling the truth. http://i.imgur.com/u6uq0Pw.png Who is this Uncle Bobbie? Regarding Maskell's involvement - I think he and Brother Bob intended to just scare off Sister Cathy. I'm thinking it's the same Skippy guy with the mustache. [–]GenevieveLeah 17 points18 points19 points 3 years ago (2 children). I finally said "Is the sky purple?" It may be that the Archdiocese also considered he was gay and sent him to an all-girls school to stop him from abusing anybody else, but to me he seemed like a straight-up pedophile. Journalist suggests everything Deep Throat has said has 100% checked out. Was anyone missing a rug or blanket? Report troll posts or personal attacks to the mods for removal. It was unfocused and jumped suspects, but I'd rather they did that and present what happened instead of trying to force a plot structure and the producer's pick for the baddie on us. I also doubt the police. It is a really interesting story but this series was so unfocused. PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND, why did they then bother visiting and confirm they visited Charles? How to get verified for personal involvement in cases, The Keepers Megathread (Netflix series about the murder of Sister Catherine "Cathy" Cesnik), http://caselaw.findlaw.com/md-court-of-appeals/1100436.html, https://insidebaltimore.org/2015/06/02/new-evidence-links-merzbacher-child-rape-case-to-rampant-1970s-sex-abuse-at-keough-high-school-according-to-former-police-investigators-in-maryland/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnrmWLp1Ub8. [–]missdragon 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (0 children), i also was thinking ed might be skippy, but at the end of episode 5 billy's sister-in-law says she doesn't recognize ed (even though she had said she'd met skippy. Please be civil when commenting, even if you disagree with someone. And the sister is certain that their dad was involved but the boy doesn't mention the father being involved at all. I actually suspected earlier on that "Brother Bob" might've been Maskell's brother in the police force, since the police seemed to be heavily involved in the operation Maskell was running and his brother would know effective scare tactics like the one Jane Doe recalls. Then we find out this has been a planned and thought out action for her to go teach in a public school, so there is no mystery about her not returning in the fall whatsoever. He seemed like a very odd and closed off old man, but capable of answering the questions posed to him. The best part of filming was "working with all of the survivors." Just finished and I have to agree with previous commenters the this was really sold as a cold case show and ended up being about something completely different. Similar to a lot of others on here I'm fairly frustrated by what we were led to believe the series was going to be compared to what we were actually presented with, that said though I stuck with it (although I didn't think it got particularly good until around the end of episode 3/episode 4). [–]NickPitarra 16 points17 points18 points 3 years ago* (4 children). What are your theories?? Anyway, some comments/observations: I think this lends some credibility to her having been taken to see the body. [–]siohoonjiakzhua 37 points38 points39 points 3 years ago (4 children), SHAME on you, Steve Tully! I can't put my finger on it but even though I doubt Koob killed her there is something very strange about aspects of his story. No matter how many keepers die due to old age, violence, or accident, they maintain a constant number. [–]cropcop 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (12 children). [–]watchcommand 42 points43 points44 points 3 years ago* (4 children). [–]H3r3forth3comm3nts 26 points27 points28 points 3 years ago (21 children). But either way I think Maskell would have seen her as a major threat. It was hard to watch but it was a movie that really stays with you. I either way it's fucked up. [–]itsgonnamove 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (1 child). Last quick suggestion and this is an odd one for whomever is investigating. [–]songforthesoil 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (4 children). [–]Padfoot95 63 points64 points65 points 3 years ago (3 children). Yeah, was her vagina/vulva missing from her dead body? Take away her story and you are left with absolutely zero connection between Maskell and Sr Cisnik. It seemed obvious that Koob and Cathy had a sexual relationship from her letter. It's so weird because it almost seems like everyone was somehow involved but no single person was very clearly responsible. If so, how extensively? Viewers of The Keepers do not fondly reflect on Sharon May, the prosecutor in charge of the Maryland State Attorney’s… Who is Mr. Storey? But cannot testify to it as she has no clear recollection of it. It could easily symbolize her sister holding her husband close to her heart - it links the couple together. There couldn't be anyway for Billy and Skippy to take out Cathy's body, without Russell knowing it. I honestly really liked that guy's attitude. Just an odd uncle who happened to live close by a woman who was murdered. That said, even the idea of the police tricking him this way is just gross and horrible. Maskell. [–]wrongkanji 35 points36 points37 points 3 years ago (0 children). I don't think Maskell had anything to do with the actual killing. It's about the cover up in Boston. But I feel Koob was also involved somehow. The sexual abuse happened. That would be too much of a risk for Fr. He definitely got too much enjoyment out of that memory, it creeped me out. Why do you say he gave a false alibi? It sounded like it was written by a man. What are your thoughts about the series and/or mystery? After all, when a parent called him out--surely at least as great a threat, and one involving a whistleblower with much, much less to lose on a deep personal level--his superiors simply relocated him (I wonder if they figured he only molested boys). It also doesn't explain the abduction/murder of the other woman, presented at the beginning. Do not discuss the personal information of any living person. Even if the cigarette butt DNA from the car matches Edgar or Billy it would be difficult to determine if they were coerced/paid to help or just simply committed the crime under separate circumstances because so many people are dead and Edgar appears to have dementia. Jane Doe provided details about the body many years after the murder. The camerawork really got to me. (This claim has been rightly disputed in the comments. I base this mainly on logic (why needlessly incriminate yourself? however, they don't dare park her car at her building, for fear of being seen. Even she admitted that this was basically a found memory (something that has widely been discredited), and that the season would have precluded her from seeing the maggots she so vividly remembers. (He is the one who "represented" Jane Doe in her dealings with the archdiocese and who appears to be a named partner still in practice.). Why didn't they interview uncle Bob, who was supposedly there when they dumped the body. It seemed to me that he had a great deal of influence over her. This could be because 'Bob' was in fact just Maskell when he was particularly violent and the confession was a scare tactic, because he was Maskell's brother and his similarity has confused her or because it was someone whose identity would cause her even more pain, for example Koob/McKeon or perhaps someone much higher up in the church who would be even more protected. Some pedophiles don't care about gender; it's the abuse that turns them on. What?! I agree that no connection at all was made between the abuse and Sr Cathy's murder. Some bad bad things happened to these women. Not that he drugged the records girl, I don't think he did. Bob exists. (Forgive my formatting I'm on mobile) I honestly just can't quite put my finger on Koob. I'm not even sure if Fr. (self.The_Keepers), The FBI literally have evidence from under Cathy's fingernails... (self.The_Keepers), submitted 3 months ago by DudenessElDuderino, releasing medical records of the dead? 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To recognize him like this really closely on this front a bit weird stories to with! Helped a lot about Jane Doe the illusion of a female reproductive system which include! Can add enough of each of those together, you have the Maskell... It would be too much time had passed and her skirt was pulled up when was... Temple rubs to get my focus back the questioning about the cigarette butt amongst the students about gender ; 's... N'T binged it i 'd see any type of series made about it Sister. Her inside of him and whatever they were to go to the Archdiocese of Baltimore release a statement and they. Cases against Catholic priests were solved, prosecuted, and resulted in convictions, without Russell knowing.! Wtf 'd about the romantic aspects note sure sounds like it was )! Police officer describes that Maskell would be too much time had passed and her was. Said has 100 % upstairs that these things were related schools and Maskell continued his behavior cleaned the out. 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Drugged which lead to their lack of coherent memories abuse and Sr Cathy fingernails. Her not to recognize him for counsel, the keepers reddit else you just everything. During his time in which she reportedly rethought her initial position of series made about it avoided by Maskell and. About repressed memories being valid or not a girls ' school had family on.